tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post5264130961710310897..comments2023-02-15T01:48:59.319-08:00Comments on Just The Right Words: Where Do Our Children Stand?Natalia Audrahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06909149157758339647noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post-52820575649562488282012-11-10T23:57:11.881-08:002012-11-10T23:57:11.881-08:00Over time, these can be cost-effective, even if th...Over time, these can be cost-effective, even if they come with a high initial price tag. For many people, the cost of an American refrigerator can be more than they are willing to pay for their refrigeration needs - who needs a television in the fridge anyway? Industrial and industrial pressure washers are created with industrial pumps, motors, along with other heavy-duty components. They can be purchased at Dollar General at a discounted price, and they work exceptionally well. The ground wire must undergo the hole positioned on the wire terminal on the blower housing with the ground label.Bryanfrxqhttp://www.plurk.com/p/hjrt9pnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post-65789453105041764302012-11-03T12:06:49.330-07:002012-11-03T12:06:49.330-07:00My GOA priest (with 6 kids) always said that child...My GOA priest (with 6 kids) always said that children love Orthodox worship - in little doses. The sensory aspect of Orthodox worship is attractive to children. So, as a single father with a little child in the church, we'd alternate between standing/being held, then kissing icons, then standing, then lighting a candle, then standing, then kissing other icons, then standing, then pointing out the little boys with the priest during the entrance, then a break downstairs, then standing back in church, then smelling the incense going by, then standing, then getting in line for num-numms (communion and antidoron), then standing, etc. All mixed in with other breaks downstairs or outside, or breaks allowing him to draw or climb/crawl, hide under something, etc. I found it especially helpful over the years to have held him while singing the services - before he could crawl or walk. He got used to simply being in church without being entertained beyond the music, sights, smells, the vibration in my chest from singing, the director conducting us, etc. I'm wondering how I'll do it with another one on the way since I wont' be able to be as hands-on with two as I was with one, but...Kramerjloshttp://www.plurk.com/p/hcds2ynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post-69747374066486117142011-09-02T00:34:52.057-07:002011-09-02T00:34:52.057-07:00My children are grown but I wish that I'd had ...My children are grown but I wish that I'd had the opportunity to keep them with me during worship. The church(es) I attended (non-Orthodox) thought Children's Church was the better alternative. Looking back on that experience, the implicit message was that children are a distraction to adult worship and need to be some place else. Voila...Children's Church. <br /><br />Now as an Orthodox Christian, I enjoy the presence of children during the Divine Liturgy. They are, after all, members of the Body of Christ.Darlenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01183436767997017002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post-89756300555320224092011-09-01T22:40:10.697-07:002011-09-01T22:40:10.697-07:00Think of your children in church as little teacher...Think of your children in church as little teachers. What they can teach/offer grouchy parishioners is sometimes greater that information in hundreds of sermons. Some grouches are learning resistant and they will need extra time to absorb the lessons. :^)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post-574685826208856762011-08-30T20:50:46.013-07:002011-08-30T20:50:46.013-07:00I came over from the Orthodox Homeschoolers Group....I came over from the Orthodox Homeschoolers Group. I appreciated what you wrote here. I've been so impressed lately that we CAN NOT compare our kids with others, nor can we try to make them live up to some standard. My 8 year old is not capable of what some 3 year olds are capable of in liturgy; he is a unique child with special needs, and I've spent too many years trying to make him be someone he's not. Like you, this doesn't mean I will let him run wild, but God is opening my eyes and heart to see that he is unique and needs my help, not for me to try to control him. I just wrote about this on my blog as well. Thank you for sharing this. Blessings...Rebecahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08289672288435566060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post-47096137955485511642011-08-30T08:30:20.115-07:002011-08-30T08:30:20.115-07:00Magda - "I often quibble with "Your son ...Magda - "I often quibble with "Your son was good in church today." He's always good, but sometimes he's also well-behaved." I love it! It can be hard to sound reasonable to my kids when I think they have been horrible in church and someone will come up to me in front of them and say, "Your kids were SO GOOD in church."<br /><br />A couple people mentioned not wanting to offend anyone with offers for help. I think the key here is to try to discuss it before the need for help comes up. Just approach a parent at coffee hour and say, "Anytime you need help, I'm here." While we're on the topic, coffee hour help is appreciated, too. I love it when people offer to hold the baby so I can fix myself a plate! <br /><br />Anonymous - I'm so sorry that you were treated poorly in your former parish. In the parish I mentioned in my post where the problems occurred, there were at least a couple of helpful, encouraging people (the kind who'd turn around and smile when the kids made noise and come up and say they enjoyed the children's "singing" during church). I was sure to tell them how important it was that their voices (those of the encouraging poeple) were heard as well.Natalia Audrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06909149157758339647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post-64127796485889650002011-08-29T19:10:22.517-07:002011-08-29T19:10:22.517-07:00I actually left the Roman Catholic faith in large ...I actually left the Roman Catholic faith in large part because of this. The Catholic faith teaches "pro-life". I believe that - I was and am open to life. I got so sick of the dirty looks, hateful comments, and obnoxious observations that I got when I brought my 6 [well behaved] children to church with me. I never faced worse nasty comments or unwanted ridicule for having "so many children" than what I faced in my own Parish. I finally decided that any religion that treated children that way was not the church for me. I joined another Church, where my children are welcomed and adored - and every sunday I have to respond to comments of how well behaved my children are, how sweet they are, how blessed I am... and there are always happy, cheerful members of the congregation standing by to help with the kids should I need it. By their fruits you will know them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post-31242744208583623262011-08-29T16:54:55.402-07:002011-08-29T16:54:55.402-07:00I loved reading this and agree with it completely....I loved reading this and agree with it completely. I don't mind soft noises or talking from children, although I think most people appreciate it when children making an ear-splitting amount of noise are calmed outside. <br /><br />Being a single, childless female, I am always more than happy to hold a baby for someone, or to help a toddler venerate an icon. However, I don't know how to reach out to mothers who might appreciate an extra hand. I would hate to make an offer that would be perceived as an insult.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post-16037104134918985862011-08-29T16:47:29.191-07:002011-08-29T16:47:29.191-07:00At our first assignment, I figured out that the pe...At our first assignment, I figured out that the people most likely to complain about the noise are the ones who talk during the Gospel.<br /><br />We're at our second assignment, and it's hard for people to go from a priest who stops during the Liturgy to remind parents that We Have a Nursery. Ahem. to a priest with family. On the other hand, as we persevere, the parish is seeing a significant increase the attendance of families with young children.<br /><br />I often quibble with "Your son was good in church today." He's always <i>good</i>, but sometimes he's also well-behaved.<br /><br />I love your post! Please pray for me.magdahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07869042484263319553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post-18402211229241398732011-08-29T11:01:44.149-07:002011-08-29T11:01:44.149-07:00This past Holy week, I had many people tell me how...This past Holy week, I had many people tell me how blessed I was that my adult children were all in church (I have 7 total). I responded by pointing to my 2 year old and saying "It is because I brought them to church at this age." It is definitely a challenge sometimes with the little ones, but well worth it when as adults they embrace the faith and thank you for teaching them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post-47528504261085893722011-08-29T10:07:34.353-07:002011-08-29T10:07:34.353-07:00I think many are wary about insinuating themselves...I think many are wary about insinuating themselves into other childrens' lives (and discipline). Saying something to a child in church can result in nasty comments from parents who don't appreciate how you discipline or help, or who take it as a criticism of their own parenting. This would actually be the best way for clergy to pipe up about the issue of children in a parish. The priest can publicaly parents to ask for assistance and for volunteers to assist parents who need a little help to play one-on-one rather than zone defense - those who ask for help from the priest can get a helper assigned from godparents, grandparents whose grandkids are far away, from singles, young adults, others with kids of similar age.<br /><br />When I have insinuated myself into a misbehaving situation it's usually to simply, lovingly and firmly reinforce whatever the parent has said but the child has ignored: "Why aren't you listening to your mother? Listen to your mother. Don't jump, don't hit...". That's actually a good lesson about the Theotokos and her relationship with her Son, too.123https://www.blogger.com/profile/14514075641944568806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post-18791203931913432872011-08-29T09:57:56.443-07:002011-08-29T09:57:56.443-07:00Wow, I never expected so many comments on this pos...Wow, I never expected so many comments on this post!<br /><br />Ps-losifson: One of the things that I think inspires some children to misbehave in church is that it's one place where their parents aren't doing anything else, so it seems like a prime opportunity to get some attention from them. I've begun recently to try to pour lots of positive attention into my kids at other times, to hopefully reduce their need to make up for lost time (or attention, I guess) during church. Sounds like you found a good way to give that positive attention during church. As you mentioned, though, it can be hard to do this for those of us with multiple children (and often only one parent to care for them during a service, my husband, for example is usually in the altar or choir). That's why we need others (like those, for example, who showed up at our babies' baptisms and pledged by their participation in the service to help raise them in the Lord) to help us out, whether that's by watching the well-behaved ones while we deal with the squirrely ones or by giving us a break from the latter!Natalia Audrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06909149157758339647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post-64425680270259315292011-08-29T07:49:44.476-07:002011-08-29T07:49:44.476-07:00I think there's also something quite useful in...I think there's also something quite useful in this story of Henri Belloc. He was RC and not Orthodox, but I think it's important to give a little push-back to people overstepping their bounds.<br /><br />"Belloc in the Catholic Cathedral at Westminster was a familiar sight, and the subject of many anecdotes. There was the story of his standing there during the Mass. It was his custom, learnt in France, to stand, even during the Canon. A fussy sexton approached. "Excuse me, sir, it is our custom here to kneel," he whispered. "Go to hell," said Belloc robustly. "I'm so sorry, sir. I didn't realise you were a Catholic.""<br /><br />- From 'Forgotten Champion of The Catholic Thing' by A.N. Wilson, <i>The Catholic Herald</i>, 19 Septmeber 2008, an edited version of an essay that appeared in <i>English Catholic Heroes</i>, edited by John Jolliffe, Gracewing Publishing.<br /><br />I've also liked the idea I heard some famous Orthodox priest or monk or bishop said: the sound of children in church is the sound of their exclamations of prayer. They can't pray the way adults do, so they exclaim, they cry, the run around, they grab, they look. They doing what they can with what wells up inside of them as they experience the services.<br /><br />The important thing has always been to keep my son in the atmosphere, the element of Orthodox worship and prayer. There's a story of a Greek father who never said anything to his two sons about God. He simply took them to church and, most importantly, said his own evening prayers in his sons' room <i>after</i> they went to sleep. The sense of prayer was imbued into them as they slept, and if they woke up briefly they saw the personal religious commitment of their own father speaking louder than any words ever could have.123https://www.blogger.com/profile/14514075641944568806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post-14391457856457389742011-08-29T07:42:35.056-07:002011-08-29T07:42:35.056-07:00My GOA priest (with 6 kids) always said that child...My GOA priest (with 6 kids) always said that children love Orthodox worship - in little doses. The sensory aspect of Orthodox worship is attractive to children. So, as a single father with a little child in the church, we'd alternate between standing/being held, then kissing icons, then standing, then lighting a candle, then standing, then kissing other icons, then standing, then pointing out the little boys with the priest during the entrance, then a break downstairs, then standing back in church, then smelling the incense going by, then standing, then getting in line for num-numms (communion and antidoron), then standing, etc. All mixed in with other breaks downstairs or outside, or breaks allowing him to draw or climb/crawl, hide under something, etc. I found it especially helpful over the years to have held him while singing the services - before he could crawl or walk. He got used to simply being in church without being entertained beyond the music, sights, smells, the vibration in my chest from singing, the director conducting us, etc.<br /><br />I'm wondering how I'll do it with another one on the way since I wont' be able to be as hands-on with two as I was with one, but...123https://www.blogger.com/profile/14514075641944568806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post-73706603502973874202011-08-28T19:37:13.753-07:002011-08-28T19:37:13.753-07:00Thank you for this post! We had the same experienc...Thank you for this post! We had the same experience recently and it's good to hear from other moms that yes, our children are louder to us than anyone else, and confirmation that our distraction is OUR problem and would happen with or without a particular noise. And I like how you balanced that with the Rachel Jankovic article - great point about how wanting to have a "silent" church service so OUR prideful selves can be pharasaically undistracted, is really an anti-life policy. And that as mothers we can't listen to the peanut gallery. <br />Honestly, aside from the occasional Crotchety Lady, I think most people are perfectly fine with (and even enjoy) the stirrings during Mass that indicate children are present. It means we are full of life and growing the way God intended His church to grow - by being fruitful and multiplying.Sarahhttp://44socksontheline.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post-30902980181136570252011-08-28T19:28:58.275-07:002011-08-28T19:28:58.275-07:00I think what is so hard is discerning what is acce...I think what is so hard is discerning what is acceptable behavior for children at church. I know that I have "boundaries" for mine which are different than what other parents would find acceptable...I get so anxious about what I think others are thinking of me and my children at church...instead of focusing on worship and how to lovingly engage my children in the service, so that they may feel the presence of Christ and know Him. But He is merciful and I hope that they are absorbing much, even when it seems to crazy for that to be possible. Thanks for this post Audra!Samanthahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00965245441088888524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post-83940561034073751202011-08-28T19:11:17.993-07:002011-08-28T19:11:17.993-07:00Love this post. You have put many of my feelings i...Love this post. You have put many of my feelings into words. We have often gotten some of those stares. The other day, someone (trying to be friendly) said, "Wow! Your kids were actually good in church today." All in all, our church is really great and very friendly toward kids, so I'm not complaining. What I try to remember is that it's often those who are most bothered by small kiddos in church who also wish that there were more teenagers/young adults/young families that attended church more often. The thing is that if we make our kids welcome in church from birth, they are more likely to stay forever. And if we don't, we may turn them off from church and from worshiping God forever. For me, that keeps my priorities straight. Kids first, because I am responsible in part for their salvation. Again, not excusing crazy church behavior, and I certainly discipline my children when they misbehave in church. But they need to grow up loving church and loving God, and that is my first priority. Thanks for this post, Audra!Jennahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11131660650765220353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post-37768795321407575592011-08-28T18:03:42.752-07:002011-08-28T18:03:42.752-07:00Loved reading this and yes well said! :)Loved reading this and yes well said! :)MSchoopinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03813621966883720777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2044765906748002301.post-26711344939157657752011-08-28T17:16:25.008-07:002011-08-28T17:16:25.008-07:00Well said. Thanks for sharing Audra!Well said. Thanks for sharing Audra!Trishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08944986014724898460noreply@blogger.com